Are Pro-Lifers Really Pro-Life?

Abortion Ethics Pro-life

Are Pro-Lifers Really Pro-Life?

7 October 2015 Hits:18435

Pro-lifers have been in the news quite a lot recently, firstly with the Melbourne Fertility Clinic and its failed bid to have anti-choice protesters stopped from harassing patients and staff. Then last weekend Troy Newman, head of US pro-life organisation Operation Rescue, was barred from entering Australia after a Member of Parliament raised concerns that his extremism “would cause significant harm to our community.” Mr. Newman was due to begin a national speaking tour for Right to Life Australia in Melbourne on Friday night, but had his visa revoked by the Immigration Department and has since been deported.

While I am not for abortion in any and every situation, I believe it is an issue that needs a compassionate, well thought through Christian response. I find myself struggling with some of the message and method of pro-life groups. Here are four questions that I’m asking myself about this:

1. Are they pro-life or pro-birth?

In other words, is a pro-life person anti-abortion and FOR the birth of every baby? If so, are they doing anything to support the mother’s choice to keep the baby if she decides not to go ahead with an abortion? If not, they are pro-birth and not pro-life.

While affirming the Roman Catholic Church’s pro-life stance, Pope Francis in his Apostolic Exhortation of 2013 recognised the importance of not simply being pro-birth, “On the other hand, it is also true that we have done little to adequately accompany women in very difficult situations, where abortion appears as a quick solution to their profound anguish, especially when the life developing within them is the result of rape or a situation of extreme poverty. Who can remain unmoved before such painful situations?” It’s a great question.

People that want babies to be born but don’t lift a finger to help them or their parents are just like the religious people Jesus condemned, “And you experts in the law, woe to you, because you load people down with burdens they can hardly carry, and you yourselves will not lift one finger to help them” (Luke 11:46). If we’re really pro-life we need to offer far more than rhetoric, demonstrations, marches or counseling. We need to role up our sleeves with practical help and finance and lift more than a finger to help out.

In their defense, The Helpers of God’s Precious Infants (the group that protests outside the Melbourne Fertility Clinic) do offer help to women who decide not to abort. But a quick Google search shows numerous reports of harassment from the protesters. One woman who was supporting a friend says, “I walked with them past protestors outside a termination clinic. It was threatening and intimidating. Abortion is a difficult decision without the pressure of strangers, some whose intentions are malevolent.” Another woman was told not to get an abortion to which she replied, “I’ve got cancer!” That didn’t seem to subdue the protesting group though.

2. Are they pro the life of women too?

While I believe we should certainly be concerned for unborn babies, we should equally be compassionately concerned for women who, for whatever reason, find themselves with an unwanted pregnancy. Abortion law reform campaigner Professor Lachlan de Crespigny puts it this way, ‘‘these are incredibly vulnerable women. They might be victims of incest or domestic violence; they may have gone through a traumatic marital breakup or the death of their partner; they could be drug-addicted or people who just presented late, not knowing they were pregnant; or young girls hiding their pregnancy.”

According to Emily’s Voice, 97% of abortions are performed to protect the psychosocial (mental, emotional and social) health of the mother.

International research shows women will still seek abortion, even if it is illegal. Surely we don’t want to return to the days of backyard abortions? Do pro-lifers really want that? If not, what is their solution?

3. Are they pro-life in other areas of life?

One of the contradictions I’ve noticed with some pro-lifers is that they advocate for saving babies while also supporting capital punishment and the right to bear arms. A statement regarding Troy Newman declared he “has never advocated violence against abortion providers or facilities and has instead adamantly encouraged pro-life activists to work through the legal, legislative, and justice systems to bring abortionists who are breaking the law and harming women to justice.” Mr. Newman said he had been misquoted and yet in his book, “Their Blood Cries Out,” he states, “In addition to our personal guilt in abortion, the United States government has abrogated its responsibility to properly deal with the blood-guilty. This responsibility rightly involves executing convicted murderers, including abortionists, for their crimes in order to expunge bloodguilt from the land and people … The innocent blood of the New Covenant in Christ has the power to atone for all the innocent bloodshed from the beginning of time to the end, and to purify the whole earth — the land. Rejecting that innocent blood is to reject the only standard that is effective against innocent bloodshed, excluding the lawful execution of the murderers, which is commanded by God in Scripture.”

While the Hebrew Scriptures do command the execution of murderers, they also command the execution of children who curse their parents (Leviticus 20:9); a woman who displeases her husband because she can’t prove she was a virgin when they married (Deuteronomy 22:13-20); and a person who works on the Sabbath Day (Exodus 31:14). It’s interesting to note that God gave mercy to the first murderer, Cain, and Jesus did the same for the woman caught in adultery. For more on this read my blog, Why the death penalty is wrong.

4. Are they concerned about the damage they do to the Christian faith?

Pro-life protesters that continuously and openly harass and intimidate patients and staff, including blocking footpaths, following them, shouting at them, taking photos and videos, and even striking them, hardly give Christians a good name. David Kinnaman in his book Unchristian put it this way, “Many outsiders … believe Christians have a right (even an obligation) to pursue political involvement, but they disagree with our methods and our attitudes … they claim we act and say things in an unchristian manner; they wonder whether Jesus would use political power as we do; and they are concerned that we overpower the voices of other groups.”

For this reason the Church is often seen as conservative and negative. We become known for all that we’re against rather for what we stand for. The church is often perceived as being “anti from a distance” without compassionately listening to people’s stories or engaging with them. We also become known for focusing on one or two issues (gay marriage and abortion) while ignoring other issues completely, such as the plight of the poor, the homeless and the asylum seeker, care of the environment, adoption and foster care for children in need, the predicament of the persecuted church (and other religions) and fighting for victims of human trafficking and domestic violence.

Christians need to learn to engage in the right way. We are called to share the good news of forgiveness, mercy and grace through Jesus: “Keep in mind that politics only gets you so far. You change people’s lives most deeply by transforming their hearts, by helping them embrace a passionate, thoughtful, personal connection to Jesus.” (David Kinnaman)

Our actions should be merciful, respectful, gentle and careful especially towards those whose opinion is different to ours. As the apostle Paul wrote, “Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience” (Colossians 3:12). Jesus put it this way: “In everything treat others the same way you want them to treat you” (Matthew 7:12). That would be a great start for pro-lifers!

Rob Buckingham

Senior Minister

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70 replies on “Are Pro-Lifers Really Pro-Life?”

A well reasoned article Rob. Thanks for the courage to put it out there.

A very insightful view Rob and well worth adopting this view and approach.

Thanks for writing on a touchy subject… Though I think the elephant in the room is the cold reality of abortion which makes any wrongs committed by the prolife movement pale to insignificance – In the Supreme Court case of Stenberg v. Carhart, Dr. Leroy Carhart, an abortion advocate who actually performs the procedures, described some second-trimester abortions by saying, “[W]hen you pull out a piece of the fetus, let’s say, an arm or a leg and remove that, at the time just prior to removal of the portion of the fetus…the fetus [is] alive.” He said that he has observed fetal heartbeat via ultrasound with “extensive parts of the fetus removed.”

He later goes on to argue that it is safer to kill the ‘fetus’ after birth as it is safer for the mother as it “reduces the incidence of a ‘free floating’ fetal head that can be difficult for a physician to grasp and remove and can thus cause maternal injury.”

Should prolife folk address the issues you’ve raised? Of course! But they’ve probably saved more lives already than most churches will do in a century. If anything, they need encouragement, not criticism. They need Pastors who will work with them, resource them, and be willing to speak up publically on this issue. So, if you really mean what you’ve written, I hope you’re going to get involved personally with a prolife movement and be the change you are suggesting.

Thank you for your comments Peter and I agree with you, abortion is a horrendous process. I say in my blog that “I am not for abortion in any and every situation.” I have written on abortion before, taking the subject in various perspectives. I have also spoken out and advocated behind the scenes especially back in 2008. My concern in this blog is different. As for saving lives. Yes, the lives of babies are definitely worth saving wherever possible, but churches in general have the commission to save the already born through the Great Commission. I am concerned that the behaviour of some Christians becomes a barrier to people receiving the Good News that God loves them and sent His Son into the world to save them.

Well said Peter

great article..couldn’t agree more.Let compassion& mercy guide us

What is more compassionate than saving the life of an innocent baby in the womb who has done no wrong and does not deserve to die?

Here’s a link to a powerful story that reflects why I wrote this blog and why it’s message needs to be heard. Please take a few minutes to read it: https://medium.com/@tracischmidley/are-you-really-pro-life-ab5c5acbb293

Great article of truth Pst Rob.. My concern is that our country has horrid adoption laws and DHHS is very troubled. As much as I too am against abortion, it’s not a wonder women decide to end their pregnancy when our laws are so dysfunctional in this area.

This has very little to do with why women allow their baby to be killed.

You rock
Pastor Rob
l’m very glad to be under your leadership.
Many thanks
Leah Palfrey

Haha. Thanks so much Leah 🙂

It would be prudent to read Troy Newman’s book for myself, rather than go by what others have said about his beliefs. This Saturday afternoon I’m attending the March for the Babies in the city. I’ll be spending most of the morning packing boxes for Samaritan’s Purse’s Operation Christmas Child. On the train into the city I might read Barnabas Fund’s latest persecution update magazine.

Yes, it would be good for you to read Troy’s book Ross. Great that you’re taking part in the March for the Babies. I think it’s a very worthy thing to make a peaceful and gracious statement in that way. My blog is not condemning such things and I have and will be promoting it.

PS: I’m marching to make a peaceful statement against Victoria’s abortion laws, which I consider to be unjust, and not to condemn anyone who has had an abortion.

Dear Rob,
Thank you for your thoughtful and Biblical response blog on the life issue. It’s refreshing to see a pastor write on the topic, and in an informed and reasoned way. Thank you for your personal involvement in the cause through your church.

Some of what passes as being pro life is well-intentioned but not strategic or effective. We may win the odd battle, but the war is being lost.

We started Emily’s Voice with a desire to change culture through truthful, hopeful and sensitive media campaigns. Our motivation is love for the mother and her unborn child, and a desire to see Australians fall in love with the unborn and a willingness to support women with an unplanned or crisis pregnancy.

We think the life issue is a cultural problem, not a political one. Politics reflects culture. Change culture and the politics will take care of itself. The Protestant Church has largely been silent on the subject out of ignorance (most Australians have no idea that there are an estimated 80,000 abortions a year, or why one-in-three women have one), and a reluctance to get involved for fear of being associated with the harsh and condemning elements of the pro life movement. But doing little or nothing is as useless as doing something poorly. Some want to sit out the war and throw rocks at those in the battle.

We agree that we need to be known for what we’re for: women, children, family, parenting. We have also take the view that abortion is bad for women: it’s neither freeing nor empowering. It’s often made at a time of great distress and vulnerability, often under pressure from others, and without the facts of the short and long term effects. Even Germaine Greer described abortion as a “painful and humiliating procedure presented to women as a privilege.” 70% of women say they would have continued an unplanned or crisis pregnancy if just one significant person in their life had encouraged them to do so.

Part of our mandate is to see Christians encourage women with an unplanned or crisis pregnancy, and to get involved in pregnancy support organisations where necessary. (every Church should be a pregnancy support centre).

However, to do so, there first needs to be an awakening to the enormity of the problem, including the effects on women, relationships and family. Our churches are full of women affected by abortion. I know because they tell me after the service.

Blogs like yours are a timely reminder to check our methods and attitudes.

Regards
Paul O’Rourke, CEO, Emily’s Voice.

Hi Paul. Thank you for your comment on my blog. I really appreciate the time you’ve taken to respond and the kind and informative manner of your comments. In my many years of blogging your response has got to be one of the best I’ve ever read. When you have some free time I’d love to catch up with you for a coffee and chat further about your suggestions and look for ways that we might be able to be part of the solution. Warm regards, Rob

Will do.

I read Gianna’s book and heard her speak at Richmond AOG. She is the result of a saline abortion that went wrong – she survived and testifies to the effects and reasons for non-abortion. Worth reading.

“Our actions should be merciful, respectful, gentle and careful especially towards those whose opinion is different to ours.” I guess the Jesus in the Bible forming a whip and chasing the merchants out of the temple would have violated this one. After all, their opinion was definitely different to Jesus’, and neither was he polite and respectful when it came to dealing with them.

Spot on John. In fact the only time Jesus seemed to get angry was with unmerciful religious hypocrites as was the case in the Temple as well as dealing with the Pharisees teachers of the Law who were always looking for reasons to kill Him because He (in their opinion) broke the Law. Go figure! Little has changed.

[…] baysidechurch.com.au/are-pro-lifers-really-pro-life/ […]

Hi Rob,
Jesus was/is grieved but sin. He didn’t disregard the truth to win people over. He called sin sin. Jesus never encouraged anyone to stay in their sin he told them to stop doing it. I am sure God is sad when babies are killed. If we are not against abortion we are for it. A baby has it’s own identity from the moment it is conceived. We believe that God has created each one of us for a purpose. That is our difference from pro abortionists who believe that babies are not conscious beings until they are born. We definitely need to support vulnerable women/families to keep their babies and then throughout their lives. We need to show love but still stand for biblical truth. My only consolation on this issue is that the dead babies will we welcomed into our Father’s arms with love.

God Bless,

Steven

Hi Steven,

Thank you for your comments. I totally agree with everything you’ve said.

I would like to highlight that my blog does not attempt to be a thorough handling of the topic of abortion. It deals with one aspect of the debate as I say, “While I am not for abortion in any and every situation, I believe it is an issue that needs a compassionate, well thought through Christian response. I find myself struggling with some of the message and method of pro-life groups.” That is what this blog is about. I have written other blogs over the years on other aspects of abortion. They are all on the Bayside Church website so feel free to scroll through and read them.

I would like to clarify that I am Pro-life and over my 30 years of pastoral ministry I – along with my wife Christie and our pastoral team at Bayside Church – have helped many people get through all sorts of situations. This includes women who were planning to have an abortion but decided not to because of the support of our church community. This also includes women who have had abortions and then found themselves in a place of feeling guilty and seeking God’s forgiveness and healing. We are Pro-life but we are also very careful to not bring condemnation to people. Our hearts’ desire is to reach out to all the people that God loves and for who Jesus died – that is, ALL people!

Thank you again for your comments.

Warm regards in Christ,

Rob

We’ve posted this link of a blog by Bill Muehlenberg so you can read an alternative view to the one I express in my blog.

Thank you for all the comments on here. There are more to be posted and I will do my best to answer questions and respond to comments in a respectful way. God bless. Rob

Dear Rob,
I am not sure how many active prolife people you actually know because I can assure you that we are exactly what you call for…
“Our actions should be merciful, respectful, gentle and careful especially towards those whose opinion is different to ours. As the apostle Paul wrote, “Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience” (Colossians 3:12). Jesus put it this way: “In everything treat others the same way you want them to treat you” (Matthew 7:12).
It seems that you have bought the lies that the abortion industry has sold you. They tell unsubstantiated wild stories of our behaviour and then when pressed to show proof from their security cameras that they have poised on us, they are silent. The fact is that we care deeply for these mothers and offer real, practical, immediate, material and social help for these mothers and their babies. My husand and I are personally Godparents to a family that took our offer of help and chose to keep their baby. After a young woman had an abortion at our town’s clinic, she rang me. When she became pregnant again(a common occurrence “replacement babies”) she asked me to be her support person at the birth of her baby. So it is quite wrong to say that we don’t care about the mothers. We can’t guarantee that we can provide for every single need for a mother and child. Can anyone? But we can walk with her to the best of our ability, and that is what we do. Rob, real human beings die at these clinics. We aren’t able to save all of them, but we can save some and the rest die with dignity, their existence being acknowledged by somebody. From the dawn of mankind, human beings have reached out to help one another when they are in need and have accompanied the dying in prayer. Let’s not forget James 1:27 “Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.” Who could be more of an orphan than the unborn? Who could be more of a widow than a woman whose father of her child won’t step up and take responsibility for fatherhood? And who is more polluted by the world than “Christians” who judge other Christians who step out of their comfort zone to defend the “least of my people” ?

Hi Rob,
And just a follow-up to my other comment. Our creed on the footpath is to “remove anything that would keep the mothers from experiencing the unconditional merciful love of God from us.” I hope I’ve given you something to think about but accept that our cross as Helpers has always been and probably always will be, to be misunderstood. God bless you in all you do.

Hi Anna,

Thank you so much for your comments and all you do to help women that need help and want to seek an option other than an abortion. Please feel free to read my other comments on this thread as they address your concerns too.

Warm regards in Christ,

Rob

An extremely disappointing article by the pastor; at stake are babies who are being killed. How can followers of Christ justify premeditated murder?

Hi Paul,

Nowhere in this blog do I justify murder. The blog is not about that at all. It’s addressing people who say they are pro-life but don’t back their stance with actions.

Warm regards,

Rob

Hi – I have read this article and the one by Bill Muehlenberg. I think both are guilty of errors in communication, but hopefully not errors in underlying intent. By asking those four questions you have inadvertently accused the “pro-life” groups with answering those questions wrongly, even if by innuendo. How representative are those “wrong attitudes” – the questions seem to be like the debating strategy of shooting down straw men. By not giving estimates about the prevalence of wrong attitudes/behaviours you mention, you run the risk of tarring all groups with the same brush.

Rather than asking these hypothetical questions, why not describe the characteristics of what your church is actively doing now to reduce abortions and help mothers with their babies. Describe a positive role model that other churches might be able to copy, and what impact you are having on women faced with unwanted pregnancies.

And finally, the phrase “While I am not for abortion in any and every situation” seems very vague, particularly when this states the subject matter for the blog. Why not something like “I am against abortion in all situations. Full stop”? that might have created a better context for the rest of the blog.

BTW, It would be worth meeting with Bill – you might both learn a lot 🙂

Hi Peter,

Thank you for your comments. I would like to highlight that my blog does not attempt to be a thorough handling of the topic of abortion. I have written other blogs over the years on other aspects of abortion. They are all on the Bayside Church website so feel free to scroll through and read them. This blog is the result of personal discussions with – and observations of – some pro–life people and groups over many years, as well as conversations with people who have had bad experiences with pro-lifers. It is in no way a condemnation of all people who have a pro-life stance. I am pro-life! The four questions I ask should be a very good filter for any of us to use to check our opinions, motivation and actions. Do any of these questions refer to me? If the cap fits then wear it!

I don’t doubt for one minute that I am guilty of errors in communication. I think anyone who tries to communicate is always in danger of being misunderstood, not communicating clearly enough, or using the wrong wording. I have two people who read my blog each week before it is published and they often make changes to them.

Your suggestions are good ones for future blogs. Obviously a blog is not a book and thus cannot deal thoroughly with a given topic. It is not meant to. A blog is about presenting an opinion and then opening it up for comments and discussion. That’s what is happening here. I think it’s very helpful and healthy and hopefully we can all grow and become better informed as a result. I know of some bloggers who don’t allow comments at all; others who don’t publish anything negative. We publish every comment (and I respond if necessary) except those that are vindictive or use profanity.

Warm regards,

Rob

Rob Buckingham going more and more into apostacy if you ask me.The protesters dont lift a finger to help these women and thier babies?! Is he serious? There are countless pro life ministries set up to do exactly that! Ok Im guilty of defending the defenceless, I think the bible is pretty clear about how God feels on the matter.

Hi Michelle. Suggesting that if we are pro-life we make sure we back our
opinion up with actions is not committing apostasy. Apostasy in a
Christian sense would mean denying who Jesus is and what He has done
through His death and resurrection. I very much believe He is the Saviour
of the world and He is my Lord and Saviour. Feel free to comment on my
blog and join the conversation but please try and keep your comments kind.

Rob, Bill Meulenberg quite logically refuted all of your terribly irrational pro-choice arguments. The Bible says that we should not kill under ANY circumstances whatsoever, nor should we condone killing, which is sadly exactly what you are doing.

Which is a greater evil, to offend someone who by pointing out that they should not murder, or to placate someone’s feelings at the expense of a human life?

The human person is alive from conception; this is an inarguable scientific fact which you have conveniently ignored. Jesus would not encourage anyone to murder another person regardless of the circumstances, and as such, you claiming that the right thing to do is to allow women to have abortions is remarkably anti-Christian. I am very disappointed to see this rhetoric spouted by one who claims to be a man of Christ.

Hi James. It seems that I have not made myself clear enough. I am not writing to endorse abortion. I am pro-life. The blog was written so that all of us who claim to be pro-life can check our motivation and actions, our methods and the impact they have on a world that God loves and for whom Jesus died. I apologise if I haven’t made that clear enough in what I’ve written. God bless you. Rob

Hi Rob,
I am Coordinator for Pregnancy Counselling Australia who run a 24/7 Helpline for women facing unplanned pregnancies.I whole-heartedly endorse every word of Paul O’Rourke’s comment. Particularly that this life issue is a cultural issue and one that deserves more attention from the Protestant church. Thank you so much for writing on the subject.
Our counsellors speak to women every day who cannot see a way forward,they often have no idea where to get the help that they need. Most women do not gladly choose to terminate their pregnancy, however they feel that in their specific circumstance that they have no other choice. These women are grateful to have someone listen to their story and enable them to connect with Pregnancy Support centres within their area.
The pro-life movement is made up of many different people fulfilling different aspects of enabling women to not only give birth but also supporting them in whatever way is needed for them to parent successfully.
No-one pro-lifer does it all. We are each fulfilling one step in the process of offering real support. It takes commitment to be willing to stand on a footpath, pray and gently ask, “Do you really want to do this?” If the answer is no then that woman will be helped to access support networks that have been set up by other pro-lifers. In takes commitment to man a Pregnancy Helpline 24 hours/ day, 7 days/week in order to listen to women and then connect them with services that they otherwise would not be aware of.
In my experience of meeting many pro-lifers, I have yet to meet one who was not prepared to give sacrificially of their time and resources towards helping women facing a crisis pregnancy.
I totally agree with Paul O’Rourke that every church should offer Pregnancy support. I look forward to the day that I can confidently refer women facing a crisis pregnancy to their local church.
Kind Regards,
Lois Dean, Coordinator, Pregnancy Counselling Australia http://www.pregnancycounselling.com.au/

Hi Lois,

Thank you so much for your gracious and informative response to my blog. I realise that there are many people and organisations doing an outstanding job of supporting women before and after birth, as well as before an after an abortion. My blog was not meant to be critical of them at all. It was more directed at those who say they are pro-life but do nothing to back up their beliefs.

I will post your comments and website on our church website so that women who read the blog will have some resources to turn to. I also agree with Paul O’Rourke and I’m looking forward to meeting with him soon.

Warm regards,

Rob

As someone who has worked in the pro-life area and with post abortive women for about 20 years, I would like to comment on this article. We run a pregnancy centre that aims to help all women, even if they are no considering abortion. We help all women to become the best parents they can by running parenting programs. We offer clothing for free, baby goods for free and help in any way we can. So I hope that is ‘good enough’ to be called pro-life. I know I can only help in one part of Australia, but if we all put our hands and hearts out there we could accomplish more. If people in your area/church are not truly pro-life then maybe they should be looking at what they can do.
As I also mentioned, I work in the area of post abortion grief. I wonder how many people are aware of the pain and trauma that women suffer after abortion? There are many studies that explain it, but I have been working in this area for 20 years and spoken to countless women who are struggling. If we want to be truly pro-life, we will also realise that abortion is not good for women either. Never! Under no circumstance is abortion beneficial to women. As Christians it shouldn’t be hard to realise that this is because God did not give us the ability to carry the burden of ending life. That is Gods decision and His alone. And God will always give us the ability to handle what He puts in our path. I have never met a woman who says she regrets having her baby, but I have counselling too many who say they regret their abortion. God has given us clear standards in His Word. Isn’t it great when we can simply believe and trust in what He says.

Hi Lyn,

Thank you for your comments and for all the work you’re doing to help women in need. My blog is not addressing people like you. It’s addressing those who say they are pro-life but don’t back their words up with actions. I have written other blogs over the years on other aspects of abortion. They are all on the Bayside Church website so feel free to scroll through and read them.

Warm regards in Christ,

Rob

Maybe I’m going against the flow here. You do make some good points about people who are pro-life. Sometimes it is as if they appear to have a righteous anger. It is not loving to show this to a mother who is considering or about to abort her unborn child. However your article is quite negative and so cringe worthy in other ways. You make friends with everyone in your article and even use the words of Christ in Colossians and Matthew. But echoing through those words is the unmistakable lack of love, compassion and gentleness for the unborn child whose life is forever intertwined with his or her mother’s. Both mothers and babies are hurt through abortion. I do not respect or condone your opinion. You have given a very cozy article which appeals to those who want to white wash tombs to borrow a phrase. You can’t kill and then act as if it is humane. Both mother and child are forever scarred for this life and forever. I will now read what Bill has to say.

Hi Kath,

Thank you for the comment on my blog.

I’m not sure that I follow some of your reasoning. For instance, how do I “make friends with everyone in your article and even use the words of Christ in Colossians and Matthew.” What’s wrong with quoting from the Bible? Please let me assure you that I have certainly not made friends with everyone! Just read some of the comments on here and you’ll see that’s not the case.

In what ways have I shown an “unmistakable lack of love, compassion and gentleness for the unborn child whose life is forever intertwined with his or her mother’s”?

You are most welcome not to “respect or condone” my opinion. That’s the value of blogging. It enables the blogger to present a topic for discussion and for others to give their opinions and to agree or disagree. I could disable the comments section on this blog, and I could also simply not post your comments, but I choose to post all comments and try to answer them all if they require a response. Obviously this is very time consuming but I think it’s important to do this to engage in respectful dialogue.

“You can’t kill and then act as if it is humane.” – I agree, and I haven’t done that!

“Both mother and child are forever scarred for this life and forever” – I disagree. There is healing in this life as well as the one to come.

Hi, Rob. I read Bill Muehlenberg’s article and then thought I would read yours. My wife and I have been supporting women (pregnant and post abortion) for over 15 years, ie having women stay at our house, financially assisting with pregnancy, baby, study, prac needs, etc, etc. We are very much part of the prolife movement (if one is to call it that). I would have to say Bill’s article is spot on. Your article wishes to soft peddle. In principle you are against abortion but it is apparent that you do not want to “offend” people. But with regards to the killing of babies in the womb, your view is actually unChristian ie non biblical. If you truly … and I mean truly … understood what abortion is, and here I am talking about the ripping to pieces little infants in the woman’s womb, or throwing them in a garbage bin after a botched abortion, you would want to weep and yell from the heavens, “Wake up … wake up … can’t you see it is so … so wrong!” Please re-read Bill’s article. It is not an attack on you, but your ideas which are indeed unChristian while trying to appear Christian. Christians of all people stand up for what is good and right, yes, in a lovingly, but they need to stand up and call it for what it is: murder.

Hi Trevor,

Thank you for your comments. I commend you and your wife for the work you do with women and that you back up your Pro-life stance with actions. My blog is not addressing Pro-life people like you. I make it very clear in point one that I’m speaking about people who say they are Pro-life and yet don’t do anything about it. They are not pro-life they are pro-birth. Here’s a link to a powerful story that reflects why I wrote this blog and why it’s message needs to be heard. Please take a few minutes to read it: https://medium.com/@tracischmidley/are-you-really-pro-life-ab5c5acbb293

I am not soft-peddling the issue of abortion; if I wanted to not offend people I wouldn’t have written this blog in the first place – it seems I’ve offended plenty of people; I do truly understand what abortion is and I find the practice of it to be horrendous. But that is not the purpose of this particular blog.

Thank you for the addresses to your websites. I include links here for anyone who would like to utilise your services:
http://abortsa.com

http://www.pregnancyhelpsa.com.au

Warm regards in Christ,

Rob

I have read both Trevor and came to the same conclusions. I have two children and nine grandchildren and I see the beauty of God’s creation in all of them. When I am in the supermarket, I go gaga over the little babies in the shopping trolleys. To me everyone is beautiful and part of God’s wonderful creation.

It is obvious that abortion is just another part of Satan’s strategy to destroy the family which is a reflection of God’s character and purpose. He loves to steal, KILL and destroy and he doesn’t care that the mother who has her baby aborted will be destroyed emotionally.

The premise of Rob’s article is quite ridiculous. For every christian who might be defending the life of the baby the wrong way (in his eyes) there probably are 100 that are doing it the right way.

I know ministers that are giving christianity a bad name but that does not mean all of them are. Articles like this one are totally unnecessary. What we need is an enormous hue and cry from the church at the horrendous Victorian abortion law and a government that treats dogs better than babies.

A couple of things Rob.

Having listened to you for years, I am starting to notice a subtle tone that is condescending and harsh (which you attribute to Bill), yet you probably won’t be able to notice it.

Do you have neutral proof readers read your blog content and social media posts? Just flicking through responses today and I’m shaking my head thinking “this isn’t the controversial Rob I remember” 🙂

I admire you heaps Rob. I used to record all of your TV shows. I would also encourage you to make sure the “harsh and angry” spirit is quelled as you sit down to pen your next blog post.

Frankly – many of these posts (and social media responses of “you’d have to be kidding” and “?”) smack of argumentative, petty and non-loving behaviour.

Pretty much what you seem to be accusing groups of Christians in each blog post.

Hi Darren,

Thank you for your comments and for taking the time to express you opinion. I will take on board what you’ve said.

I’m sorry you’re noticing a “subtle tone that is condescending and harsh” in my blogs. I try very hard not to come across in either of those ways in my blogs as I don’t like those qualities. Yes I do have two neutral proof readers and they make recommendations for changes as they see fit. I listen to them and take their advice on board.

Warm regards in Christ,

Rob

Hi Rob, I’m a first time reader on here, reading your blog above I was decidedly put off that a christian pastor could be ‘pro choice’ and that so many of your flock could be suportive of this article.
It was only be reading your responses that I came to realise that you are not ‘pro choice’ but were just questioning some aspects of the ‘pro life’ group.
As such I believe that if you had introduced your article with some of the material in your comments you may not have put Bill Muelenburg and presumably others off side, (sounds like his reply may have been a bit prickly).
To the uninformed reader your blog was a slap in the face to those who hate abortion, putting all of them in a basket that makes them seem uncarring, strict, hypocritical. Your comments however seem to reflect that you just wish that some were more caring and supportive.

I was however puzzled by your repeated comment “While I am not for abortion in any and every situation…”, such a comment could be made from any point of view in the abortion debate, including either extreme.
Not all people are encourages or exhorters, some are watchmen on the wall, they sound an alarm when they see or percieve something to be wrong. Putting such people down should not be a first response, but find out front what ‘angle ‘ they come from, and there would not be as much ill feeling between people. Bill Muelenburg may not be the person you think he is.

Mark Lambert.

Hi Mark,

Thank you so much for your comments. I’m glad that you’ve read my blog and have understood where I’m coming from.

The topic of abortion is a massive one and my blog does not attempt to be a thorough handling of the subject. It deals with one aspect of the debate as I say, “While I am not for abortion in any and every situation, I believe it is an issue that needs a compassionate, well thought through Christian response. I find myself struggling with some of the message and method of pro-life groups.” That is what this blog is about. I have written other blogs over the years on other aspects of abortion. They are all on the Bayside Church website so feel free to scroll through and read them.

I had no intention of this blog being a slap in the face of those who are genuinely pro-life. I ask four questions that I think are a very good filter for all of us to ask ourselves if we take a Pro-life stance (which I do) to make sure we back our words and opinions up with actions (which I do). I am also concerned when our opinions become a stumbling block to those who are genuinely seeking God.

Warm regards in Christ,

Rob

PS You may wish to look at our websites http://www.abortsa.com and wwwpregnancyhelpsa.com.au

I’d love to see half of the people who commented on this post write a well-informed blog a week on a sensitive issue with good intention, then read all the negative comments it gets with smiley faces on the end 🙂
Honestly I am really sick of people not reading the blog’s initial contention before commenting something to do with abortion. This blog isn’t about abortion, it’s about SOME of the people that are part of the pro-life group.

Abortion is not an issue with a yes or no answer, because if it were, blogs would not be written about it. So to accuse the wording of “not for abortion in any or every situation” of being vague, is a little bit pointless. The issue isn’t black and white, there are many perspectives and lives that are affected by it, so to say that there is an outright answer is a huge proposition and, most likely a wrong one.

I also have the feeling that someone like using interesting words like “apostasy” to sound fancy because they clearly don’t know what it means. Look it up. It has nothing to do with pro-life, abortion, or freely expressing your educated opinion in the form of a blog! That was an unnecessary and unkind thing to say.

My personal experience is that people I speak to about abortion and issues surrounding it who are not religious in any way, tend to think of Christians as the angry people screaming outside abortion clinics that every life is sacred and that it doesn’t matter what the situation is, abortions are wrong in every way. I have heard this from numerous people, so it is obvious that there has been some misconception along the way that the faith of compassion, acceptance and above all LOVE is really one of condemnation and judgement. I hope to change this misconstrued idea that Christians are the angry protestors, the nurses shaking their heads at women seeking an abortion, or the sarcastic and condescending blog-repliers.
When there are so many Christians living their life out of love and ‘being Jesus’ to those who do not know him, it is a shame that other people quite frankly don’t want to come to know Jesus because they are turned off by who they see in the media, etc, representing him.

I think something that can be learnt from this is that the higher issue here isn’t abortion, and its not which ‘side’ to take. It is the issue that Christians are being discourteous and insolent to each other, the predicament that non-Christians see this behaviour being displayed, and the concern that they then want nothing to do with the Christian faith.
To be quite blunt, if I were a non-Christian and saw all of these audacious comments on social media made by Christians, I would not be eagerly searching for a church service to attend. I’m just saying.

I acknowledge that many people have also had a positive response towards this blog and many other blogs on this and other sensitive issues, and those are always a breath of fresh air and substantial to read, however they are sadly outweighed by the negative impacts of dissentient comments.

A friendly and absolutely not threatening/condescending/proud reminder that as Christians we should be empathetic and gentle to those of and not of faith, as we are here to represent God’s love, not judgement or criticism.

To sum this comment up: BE KIND !!!!!

Sincerely,
Georgia-Grace

Sorry Georgia, but abortion is black and white because it involves the killing of an innocent baby that has done no wrong. You can argue all day long about this situation or that situation or this way or that way but at the end of the day, an innocent baby is murdered.

Okay so you believe that if a mother was going to die if she was to have a baby that terminating the pregnancy is still wrong? Not every situation is the same, that is why its not a black and white issue. There is no universalisable maxim for abortion. If there were we wouldn’t be debating it.

Think about it – A mother saving her own life by killing her baby – what kind of person would kill someone else to save their own life? It could not be considered a position of love, and absolutely not one that is supported in any way by Scripture……quite the opposite in fact.

You may not know that in a case like this, the mother and baby may die if they do not terminate the baby. That is achieving what exactly? I think you may need to read up on things before you comment something like that.

We get the society we deserve. The reason why homosexuality has raised its ugly head in the church is due to the fact that we have trivialised marriage with christians divorcing at the same rate as secular society.

The reason that we have open slather on abortions is due to the fact that christians are having abortions and support abortion and placing their children in child care centres and have them raised by unbelievers so they can go out to work and chase the almighty dollar instead of raising them themselves.

The reason why society is like it is has come about because of a prayerless church. The word says if my people will seek my face I will heal the land. The fact that the land is not healed means we don’t seek his face. How many churches spend more than an hour a week in corporate prayer?

Society is like it is because we are like we are.

And society obviously can’t change because it never has before… ??? And I don’t really think homosexuality has an ugly head, in fact, I think homosexuality is completely irrelevant to this topic. I think you missed the point. The church isn’t prayerless, and if thats your experience then I’m sad for you.

I do not need to read up on it. We have lived it…….

Can I just add to my previous comment by saying that you appear to be very worried about how Christians are portrayed. As you can see from the many comments, there are a lot of Christians who are doing the right thing- who are truely pro-life in their words and actions. But do you think the media will ever tell the truth about this? Do you expect the media to tell the stories of pro-life centres in a positive light? Or show the ‘Helpers’ in an unbiased way? I’m glad that so many have been able to tell you the truth about what really happens, but I know there are countless more who work very hard to help the women and babies and families who struggle with the lie of abortion. If Christianity has been made to be about ‘gay marriage and abortion’ as you said, then why is that? I’d say it has to do with the bias of the media and the fact that we are in a real spiritual war here. I’m sorry to tell you, but Christianity is never going to win a popularity contest and not ALL people will be saved. We are not called to make Christianity popular or to make it look appealing, rather we are called to speak the truth in love. Because ultimately it is only conviction of our sin and repentance that will save us, and that only comes through the true preaching of God’s word. I am so grateful to see the work of many humble Christians, who simply show that they are pro-life by having families (most having more than 4 children and some as many as 10) caring for those families at home, caring for others in the community by supporting new mothers, baking for them, making meals for them, babysitting for them, having coffee with them – all normal activities that show that we truely support women who have babies. I think they are the most pro-life of all.

The media may start to take Christianity seriously if it wasn’t so hypocritical. Saying “love your neighbour as yourself”, but then if your neighbour is same-sex attracted suddenly you love them less… The thing is – and the relieving thing – is that abortion, sexual orientations, etc, are not our concern, they are not for us to judge, only God. I believe that God died to save everyone (after all, pretty sure the Bible says that) and that includes EVERYONE. It is up to God what is deemed acceptable or not, so I think our job is just to love everyone, we aren’t the judgers. I don’t see why we can’t make Christianity popular, and not in the fashionable sense, but the sense that someone should look at Christians and think “I want what they have”. That kind of thing. It just starts with being accepting and kind.

It’s great to see you’re really passionate about this, but I think you’re confusing the issue of “loving thy neighbour” and obeying God’s Word as a child of God, Georgia-Grace.

You’re right – if a Christian decides to “love someone less” because of their sin, then that is not Jesus-like.

However I have 3 kids, and you can be sure that when they are old enough to be in a relationship and look toward marriage, that I will be making it clear that Jesus talked about a man joining to be with his wife, not another man.

At the end of the day, I love and accept my children 100%, but I won’t necessarily approve of their behaviour! Approve / accept – 2 different things.

Hello Pastor Rob. Christians should receive feedback on their activities, that’s fair enough, we’re not perfect, so it can help us to be more effective/more Godly in showing love & grace to people/our communities. I am one of the Helpers of God’s Precious Infants advocating (not protesting) for women & their unborn children. When I spoke to the TV/radio/print media recently (outside the Supreme Court) I said “how would it be helpful to our advocacy for pregnant women if we were harassing, violent, abusive to them? It makes no sense at all”, yet these are the things the media continues to put in print, on TV/radio and accuse us of. They have not produced any evidence of these things, but continue to defame/slander our group. It is very important that these unproven accusations are not repeated to a Christian/wider audience, as if they are facts. (It comes as no surprise that those who support abortion will make statements found in the google searches you referred to). I invite you to come to a clinic in East Melb or Croydon or Hampton Park and see the prayerful and loving Christians there, providing offers of help to pregnant women in their hour of need. I would also like to meet with you at Church Unite this year – an inspired event , perhaps we could, as a body of believers, lift up the mothers & their unborn children, weep and mourn for them and commit to supporting those already doing something in this labour of love/service, and thereby make a real difference. Three examples, donate to a pregnancy support centre, support an upcoming proposed bill/law in the Parliament, the Infant Viability Act – see the facebk page of that name for more information. And to oppose a pending bill by the Government to implement exclusion zones around abortion clinics (which will make decent acts of human kindness illegal). Thanks for the opportunity to have a say and thanks for reading.

Thank you for your comments Jeremy. I appreciate what you’ve said. I’m certainly happy to say hi to you after one of the Church Unite gatherings. This year we will be focusing on the issues of domestic violence and asylum seekers.

My blog is not intended to be critical of people like you – or anyone else who is pro-life. As I make abundantly clear in my blog as well as in my many comments above, I am pro-life. The questions I ask in the blog are intended as a filter for those of us who are pro-life to make sure we are acting in the right way and being consistent in our pro-life stand. God bless you. Rob

Hello Rob,

Probably every reader of this blog would say that if they saw a child being beaten to death in the street, they would definitely come to the child’s aid. But if we see a pregnant woman walking into an abortion “clinic” we stand aside and let her go in (perhaps after offering her help).

Is there not a fundamental inconsistency in our position? An inconsistency that cuts the ground out from under our feet? We say that abortion takes the life of a child but our actions/inactions suggest that we don’t really believe what we say.

For sure there are many reasons why we don’t take direct action to stop abortion (and I would argue that all such direct action must be non-violent) but are any of those reasons sufficient when we consider that abortion is the greatest deliberate destroyer of human life in history?

Perhaps readers would like to read our website, http://www.protect-life.info which tells something of our experience of such non-violent direct action in Brisbane over the last 13 years.

I would also recommend pro-lifers read what I believe is the most important pro-life book written, Shattering the Darkness by Joseph Foreman. I can provide copies.

Lastly, I want to make it clear that I am not wanting to be critical of what other pro-lifers do – I just believe that if we are going to consistent and ultimately credible we must also be taking direct action at the doors of the places of killing.

Thank you for your comments Graham, for sharing the website and for all you do to protect the unborn. My blog is not intended to be critical of people like you – or anyone else who is pro-life. As I make abundantly clear in my blog as well as in my many comments above, I am pro-life. The questions I ask in the blog are intended as a filter for those of us who are pro-life to make sure we are acting in the right way and being consistent in our pro-life stand. God bless you. Rob

Great news out of the US today…

The Planned Parenthood Federation of America announced that it will stop receiving money in exchange for parts of babies aborted at their facilities ‪#‎goodnews‬

It’s good to see someone living in the real world.

The harsh realities are that banning abortions does not reduce them. In fact, countries in Latin america and Africa which have banned abortions have far higher abortion rates then where abortion is legal and they are nearly all unsafe.

Also the vast majority of abortions are in developing countries which have high levels of poverty and low levels of education.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/18/abortion-rates-higher-countries-illegal-study_n_1215045.html?ir=Australia

Also there are mitigating factors which women raise when giving reasons for having an abortion. Mainly they are to do with economics or not having a partner. Nothing there about satan.

http://womensissues.about.com/od/reproductiverights/a/AbortionReasons.htm

It’s easy to just say no.

But there is a bigger picture and life isn’t black and white.

Wow. It seems that those of you who have posted what seems to be a well educated, negative opposing comment about this blog, has an uneducated ability to understand the content of the actual topic. How tiring and repetitive for pastor Rob to repeat the same response to keep people on topic. I think people just want to share what they know, rather than a fresh new constructive point.

If abortion were the topic of the blog, which seems to be the main concern here, the only concerning factor would be, thinking I am sitting in a church with ‘Christians’ holding those stakes with that dangerous stereotypical mindset of those who I am almost 99% certain have never been in the actual position of having that child in their womb and feeling like the decision of having an abortion is their only option. Have any of you had an abortion? How are we still living in a society of self righteous, modern day Pharisees?! Surely we have evolved! You are all entitled to your opinion, yes, but to know there are ‘Christians’ who still have that same worldview of what they think should happen to that baby is oh so stale and ignorant, and driving more people away from who our God actually is. I would rather, love to live in a world thinking God will take care of that baby when it leaves the womb, and then take care of the mother who made that excruciating decision, through real ‘pro life’ Christians who see past the sin and see a future and start a cycle of healing and redemption for her and many more in the same situation. Which outcome do you think seems more logical? Or do you much prefer to think of just a life that was early terminated and a woman living the rest of her life in condemnation? It’s a Christian duty of care to influence positivity, hope, compassion and LOVE…..which means looking past the sin. Lets be real people, we live in a world where people kill people, have babies outside of marriage, people are in homosexual relationships…..they are still people! its your attitude behind dealing with it.
How dare u put Your Sin’s above abortion.

Necessary words in a pivotal time in Victorian history. 99% of Christians in this State don’t know how far the Abortion laws extend, if they did there would be mass outrage.

You’ve made a small error in my opinion on protestors Rob, im not sure how many public Prolife events you’ve been to but I’ve been to most and the only belligerent behavior is from feral socialists who come and rabble rouse to counter protest. Don’t confuse us with the American movement which has a large contingent of atheist Prolifers and very nominal Christians involved.

Hey Rob, firstly, I love that you take the time to reply to peoples comments on your blog (positive or negative) . Kudos to you for that.
The issue of abortion is quite an emotional subject, often generating emotive, passionate responses from folk (and rightly so).
Many comments here are explained far better than I could hope to and so, I wont even attempt to cover the same ground.
Appreciate that you have stated your pro life position, however, I think why so many were left shaking their head at your blog, is that in these times – there are far too many in church leadership who seem to straddle the fence on a variety of issues.
We have seen this most recently with the “marraige equality” issue. Pastors who should be taking a Scriptural stand (which is really a no-brainer) – instead dancing around the issue, claiming it to be complicated and the subject of ongoing conversation……..

What are they afraid of? Losing members? Losing income?, Being judged by the world? Being set apart? Being pariahs for the Word of God?

The sad fact is that many in their congregations, then speak the same. Any mention of a position from Scripture is often answered with… “but my pastor says…….. ”

Yahwehs word does cause offense to those who would ignore it. Sometimes there is no escaping that and as a Pastor, you have to be prepared to take the hits on a variety of issues.

Abortion is such an issue. Pators, shepherds, church leaders must be clear and unwavering in the Scriptural position. Both the Father and the Son are very clear when it comes to murder and how we treat out children – our position should be unequivocally the same. Support those in need – absolutely – in word and in deed. Equally, we must also support the watchmen – in this case – those who are not afraid to speak out for those who cannot speak for themselves.
Shalom.

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